Friday, April 16, 2010
angst with GH and RB
So i'm not here to bash guitar hero or rock band...ok maybe just a little....but they really are cool games, but these games are like cancer for our online stores. A lot of the updates the network stores get would be non-exitent without these games and I just get tired of seeing NEW TRACK NEW TRACK NEW TRACK every week and especially on the psn I am excited that there will be no new updates for a while now and I can have a break from seeing all the stupid guitar hero and rock band updates every week. Anyway...just felt like rantingeye lips
*Please lock*
http://press-nintendo.110mb.com/article-jsp-id-14788.htm''No one wants to play the same game forever. However, sometimes it is impractical, both for Nintendo and for our customers, to release a new sequel to all our games every year. In order to solve this problem, Nintendo will begin offering the Wii Want More%26trade; service this May. By logging into the Wii Shop Channel players will be able to purchase new content for games they already own for a fraction of the price it would cost to buy a new game.
We are pleased to announce that one of 27 games to make use of the Wii Want More service at its launch will be none other than our very own best selling Super Smash Bros.?Brawl! Starting May 13, 2008, players will be able to add four undisclosed new characters and two new stages to the already large roster included in the stand-alone game for only 10.00 USD. Our customers will be even more pleased to discover that this particular package will be offered completely free of charge for the first month after the launch of Wii Want More. A better deal has never been offered by any company in the Video Game industry.
In addition to Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Nintendo will offer content for The Legend of Zelda? Twilight Princess, Fire Emblem%26trade;: Radiant Dawn, Metroid?Prime 3: Corruption, and Mario Kart?Wii, as well as several titles available through the Wii Ware%26trade; service. Wii Want More will also allow our numerous third party developers to offer downloadable content for both previously released and upcoming games. This spring, be ready to ask for more!'' ....The only thing that makes me think this is an April Fool's Joke is that Sakurai said he wasn't going to have extra characters up for download... :? Kind of wierd that he would say that and then have announcement completely contradictory to what he said. I hope this is true though. I'd love some more content for TP and Fire Emblem. :D*Please lock*
It's already confirmed fake.*Please lock*
:? Sakurai said there was no way for Brawl to access download content... and Fire Emblem doesn't have any way to connect online. If you go and download the stuff, how will it access the data? That flash memory first off would be killed even faster I'm sure, but the fact that these games don't seem to access any form of connection the the internet baffles me.I'll take it with a grain of salt though, I just don't know about it... but it would be wicked if true...
cool if true
[QUOTE=''Fick1122'']It's already confirmed fake.[/QUOTE]Really? :? That is Nintendo's official site for news though...
This better be an April Fool's Day joke. Sure, it's totally worth paying for new characters Super Smash Bros. Brawl since different characters offer a completely different experience, not to mention because Brawl's so balanced that no character has been proven to be worthless (well, not yet at least as far as I know), but it just doesn't seem right to me.That, and I don't have any of my consoles online. :(
if this was any day but the day before april fools day...i would beleive this...but it just seems to good to be true, cumon megaman!and sakuri said he wasen't going to do any download content, dosen't mean nintendo won't
[QUOTE=''nintendofreak_2''][QUOTE=''Fick1122'']It's already confirmed fake.[/QUOTE]Really? :? That is Nintendo's official site for news though...[/QUOTE]I must admit, it's hard to doubt it's legitamacy nor have I never heard of this till today either, but I'm just questionable about it is all too. I must admit, how can one doubt Nintendo's Press Site (usually for the media/developers to read) even if this isn't posted on Nintendo.com.
[QUOTE=''nintendofreak_2''][QUOTE=''Fick1122'']It's already confirmed fake.[/QUOTE]Really? :? That is Nintendo's official site for news though...[/QUOTE]I remember Nintendo saying that they wanted to add Downloadable content for Twilight Princess so that one could be true. It was E3 when they first announced the Wii.
April Fools!
[QUOTE=''Nintendo_Ownes7''][QUOTE=''nintendofreak_2''][QUOTE=''Fick1122'']It's already confirmed fake.[/QUOTE]Really? :? That is Nintendo's official site for news though...[/QUOTE]I remembering Nintendo saying that they wanted to add Downloadable content for Twilight Princess so that one could be true.[/QUOTE]
Yea I remember that also.... PLZ god give me brawl characters and twilight princess.
[QUOTE=''Technoweirdo'']This better be an April Fool's Day joke. Sure, it's totally worth paying for new characters Super Smash Bros. Brawl since different characters offer a completely different experience, not to mention because Brawl's so balanced that no character has been proven to be worthless (well, not yet at least as far as I know), but it just doesn't seem right to me.That, and I don't have any of my consoles online. :([/QUOTE]No fighting game has ever had a cast of characters that are ''all balanced.'' It isn't to do with cheapness or tricks really, but in terms of teir levels, there are always characters who will perform better than others. It still doesn't mean a low tier character with a good player can't be a mid or high tier character with a good player too. But rule of thumb in fighters is, you can't always make everyone balanced or ''the best.'' There hasn't been any real findings of balance and tiers for Brawl yet, but you will see soon that some characters just can't compare to others in tiers.
[QUOTE=''yoshi_64'']I must admit, it's hard to doubt it's legitamacy nor have I never heard of this till today either, but I'm just questionable about it is all too. I must admit, how can one doubt Nintendo's Press Site (usually for the media/developers to read) even if this isn't posted on Nintendo.com.
[/QUOTE]It's fake. :( Look at the url. It has that 110mb thing after it. Someone else just made it look like Nintendo's press site. >_> Dang it. Lock this thread mods.
what a horrible name -Pay to Play-
is not even april.. yet
We are pleased to announce that one of 27 games to make use of the Wii Want More service at its launch will be none other than our very own best selling Super Smash Bros.?Brawl! Starting May 13, 2008, players will be able to add four undisclosed new characters and two new stages to the already large roster included in the stand-alone game for only 10.00 USD. Our customers will be even more pleased to discover that this particular package will be offered completely free of charge for the first month after the launch of Wii Want More. A better deal has never been offered by any company in the Video Game industry.
In addition to Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Nintendo will offer content for The Legend of Zelda? Twilight Princess, Fire Emblem%26trade;: Radiant Dawn, Metroid?Prime 3: Corruption, and Mario Kart?Wii, as well as several titles available through the Wii Ware%26trade; service. Wii Want More will also allow our numerous third party developers to offer downloadable content for both previously released and upcoming games. This spring, be ready to ask for more!'' ....The only thing that makes me think this is an April Fool's Joke is that Sakurai said he wasn't going to have extra characters up for download... :? Kind of wierd that he would say that and then have announcement completely contradictory to what he said. I hope this is true though. I'd love some more content for TP and Fire Emblem. :D*Please lock*
It's already confirmed fake.*Please lock*
:? Sakurai said there was no way for Brawl to access download content... and Fire Emblem doesn't have any way to connect online. If you go and download the stuff, how will it access the data? That flash memory first off would be killed even faster I'm sure, but the fact that these games don't seem to access any form of connection the the internet baffles me.I'll take it with a grain of salt though, I just don't know about it... but it would be wicked if true...
cool if true
[QUOTE=''Fick1122'']It's already confirmed fake.[/QUOTE]Really? :? That is Nintendo's official site for news though...
This better be an April Fool's Day joke. Sure, it's totally worth paying for new characters Super Smash Bros. Brawl since different characters offer a completely different experience, not to mention because Brawl's so balanced that no character has been proven to be worthless (well, not yet at least as far as I know), but it just doesn't seem right to me.That, and I don't have any of my consoles online. :(
if this was any day but the day before april fools day...i would beleive this...but it just seems to good to be true, cumon megaman!and sakuri said he wasen't going to do any download content, dosen't mean nintendo won't
[QUOTE=''nintendofreak_2''][QUOTE=''Fick1122'']It's already confirmed fake.[/QUOTE]Really? :? That is Nintendo's official site for news though...[/QUOTE]I must admit, it's hard to doubt it's legitamacy nor have I never heard of this till today either, but I'm just questionable about it is all too. I must admit, how can one doubt Nintendo's Press Site (usually for the media/developers to read) even if this isn't posted on Nintendo.com.
[QUOTE=''nintendofreak_2''][QUOTE=''Fick1122'']It's already confirmed fake.[/QUOTE]Really? :? That is Nintendo's official site for news though...[/QUOTE]I remember Nintendo saying that they wanted to add Downloadable content for Twilight Princess so that one could be true. It was E3 when they first announced the Wii.
April Fools!
[QUOTE=''Nintendo_Ownes7''][QUOTE=''nintendofreak_2''][QUOTE=''Fick1122'']It's already confirmed fake.[/QUOTE]Really? :? That is Nintendo's official site for news though...[/QUOTE]I remembering Nintendo saying that they wanted to add Downloadable content for Twilight Princess so that one could be true.[/QUOTE]
Yea I remember that also.... PLZ god give me brawl characters and twilight princess.
[QUOTE=''Technoweirdo'']This better be an April Fool's Day joke. Sure, it's totally worth paying for new characters Super Smash Bros. Brawl since different characters offer a completely different experience, not to mention because Brawl's so balanced that no character has been proven to be worthless (well, not yet at least as far as I know), but it just doesn't seem right to me.That, and I don't have any of my consoles online. :([/QUOTE]No fighting game has ever had a cast of characters that are ''all balanced.'' It isn't to do with cheapness or tricks really, but in terms of teir levels, there are always characters who will perform better than others. It still doesn't mean a low tier character with a good player can't be a mid or high tier character with a good player too. But rule of thumb in fighters is, you can't always make everyone balanced or ''the best.'' There hasn't been any real findings of balance and tiers for Brawl yet, but you will see soon that some characters just can't compare to others in tiers.
[QUOTE=''yoshi_64'']I must admit, it's hard to doubt it's legitamacy nor have I never heard of this till today either, but I'm just questionable about it is all too. I must admit, how can one doubt Nintendo's Press Site (usually for the media/developers to read) even if this isn't posted on Nintendo.com.
[/QUOTE]It's fake. :( Look at the url. It has that 110mb thing after it. Someone else just made it look like Nintendo's press site. >_> Dang it. Lock this thread mods.
what a horrible name -Pay to Play-
is not even april.. yet
Here is why I pay $50 a year for xbox li ...
I am tired of seeing the same old thread, ''why do you pay for xbox live''1. I am not a pc gamer. I do not have the wallet or even desire to be a pc gamer.2. I like voice chat and communication. It is non-existant on the wii and pretty much non-existant on the ps3. Communication is important in games and xbox live offers it.3. Gamers. Xbox360 by a fair mile offers the best console online games period. 4. Users- Xbox live also has by far the most users. On the wii, most of the kids go to bed so it's hard to find a game at night. The ps3 online games have some users but not a ton. I get tons of variety on xbox live.5. Games are integrated for xbox live. Yeah most are p2p but its easily the best console online system ever. Sorry if you cows don't get that and want to live in ps3 fantasy world. Wii and PS3 got a long long way to go to even compete with live.Overall, is it worth less then 1 game cost a year? Without even blinking an eye, YES! If your a child who has not job and can't afford it then I might understand, but go mow some lawns and you can get it easily. Here is why I pay $50 a year for xbox li ...
Sure your reasons are justified, however P2P!!!! It's not like they need to maintain servers so it's beyond me why they charge for it since everything else in Xbox live costs money too, even a freaking skin or a new gamer tag... P2P is the same as a lan party, should they charge you for those too? You're paying microsoft for something that should be free. It's the principle of the thing.Here is why I pay $50 a year for xbox li ...
Well I would rather pay 50$ and have a good online service. Sure, PS3 online is free but in my opinion, the features are nowhere near as good as XBL. You get what you pay for. These days, everything costs something. If you get something for free, you get something cheap.
[QUOTE=''Hawkeye1987'']Well I would rather pay 50$ and have a good online service. Sure, PS3 online is free but in my opinion, the features are nowhere near as good as XBL. You get what you pay for. These days, everything costs something. If you get something for free, you get something cheap. [/QUOTE] PC has free online gaming (exception of some MMORPG's) that is better then Xbox live. Care to explain that? Also, I'm sure once Sony launches Home, it'll be up to par with Xbox Live and will probably still be free.
[QUOTE=''karasill'']Sure your reasons are justified, however P2P!!!! It's not like they need to maintain servers so it's beyond me why they charge for it since everything else in Xbox live costs money too, even a freaking skin or a new gamer tag... P2P is the same as a lan party, should they charge you for those too? You're paying microsoft for something that should be free. It's the principle of the thing.[/QUOTE]p2p isn't free. They have to organize it so strangers and friends alike join a game. They also have to maintain gamers score, reputation, and many other things. Its not like you say free. Those other things you say are optional. Not neccessary.
[QUOTE=''Hawkeye1987'']Well I would rather pay 50$ and have a good online service. Sure, PS3 online is free but in my opinion, the features are nowhere near as good as XBL. You get what you pay for. These days, everything costs something. If you get something for free, you get something cheap. [/QUOTE] what about free good apps on the pc? steam+xfire>>>>>>>xbox live
[QUOTE=''Kidtendo'']If your a child who has not job and can't afford it then I might understand, but go mow some lawns and you can get it easily. [/QUOTE]That's what I tell childish console fanboys (aka You) about PC gaming. :)
[QUOTE=''karasill''][QUOTE=''Hawkeye1987'']Well I would rather pay 50$ and have a good online service. Sure, PS3 online is free but in my opinion, the features are nowhere near as good as XBL. You get what you pay for. These days, everything costs something. If you get something for free, you get something cheap. [/QUOTE] PC has free online gaming (exception of some MMORPG's) that is better then Xbox live. Care to explain that? Also, I'm sure once Sony launches Home, it'll be up to par with Xbox Live and will probably still be free.[/QUOTE]It maybe free in some regard but alot of games do require fees. The pc hardware alone to play some of these games are just ridiulous. Pc gaming communtiy is not as organized.
[QUOTE=''karasill'']Sure your reasons are justified, however P2P!!!! It's not like they need to maintain servers so it's beyond me why they charge for it since everything else in Xbox live costs money too, even a freaking skin or a new gamer tag... P2P is the same as a lan party, should they charge you for those too? You're paying microsoft for something that should be free. It's the principle of the thing.[/QUOTE]Exactly.That being said, I'm still going to renew my subscription in a few days. However I hate Microsoft for it.I wish I could find out whoever had the idea and #$%^#$ #$%%26%$%26 #$#$% #%26^($. (Cencored for graphic language, violence and sadistic content.).
[QUOTE=''Kidtendo''][QUOTE=''karasill''] [QUOTE=''Hawkeye1987'']Well I would rather pay 50$ and have a good online service. Sure, PS3 online is free but in my opinion, the features are nowhere near as good as XBL. You get what you pay for. These days, everything costs something. If you get something for free, you get something cheap. [/QUOTE] PC has free online gaming (exception of some MMORPG's) that is better then Xbox live. Care to explain that? Also, I'm sure once Sony launches Home, it'll be up to par with Xbox Live and will probably still be free.[/QUOTE] It maybe free in some regard but alot of games do require fees. The pc hardware alone to play some of these games are just ridiulous. Pc gaming communtiy is not as organized.[/QUOTE] ???? because you think xbox live is more organized?
Yes all that stuff is nice but it costs microsoft id say about nothing. They are making a full profit on xbox live. That is crap.
[QUOTE=''Kidtendo'']5. Games are integrated for xbox live. Yeah most are p2p but its easily the best console online system ever. Sorry if you cows don't get that and want to live in ps3 fantasy world. Wii and PS3 got a long long way to go to even compete with live.[/QUOTE] whoa...damage control at it's finest
$50 a year is a great deal.XBL is a Service %26 PSN is a network, it maybe Free... but that doesnt mean its better.
[QUOTE=''Kidtendo''] [QUOTE=''karasill'']Sure your reasons are justified, however P2P!!!! It's not like they need to maintain servers so it's beyond me why they charge for it since everything else in Xbox live costs money too, even a freaking skin or a new gamer tag... P2P is the same as a lan party, should they charge you for those too? You're paying microsoft for something that should be free. It's the principle of the thing.[/QUOTE] p2p isn't free. They have to organize it so strangers and friends alike join a game. They also have to maintain gamers score, reputation, and many other things. Its not like you say free. Those other things you say are optional. Not neccessary.[/QUOTE] P2P isn't? It's just a program that determines who wants to play what and who can offer a decent connection. Everything you've mentioned is maintined by a program that probably costs less then $25,000 to make. No servers are being maintained, P2P is just like having a lan party. It's just connection consoles together, onthing more.
[QUOTE=''Kidtendo''][QUOTE=''karasill''][QUOTE=''Hawkeye1987'']Well I would rather pay 50$ and have a good online service. Sure, PS3 online is free but in my opinion, the features are nowhere near as good as XBL. You get what you pay for. These days, everything costs something. If you get something for free, you get something cheap. [/QUOTE] PC has free online gaming (exception of some MMORPG's) that is better then Xbox live. Care to explain that? Also, I'm sure once Sony launches Home, it'll be up to par with Xbox Live and will probably still be free.[/QUOTE]It maybe free in some regard but alot of games do require fees. The pc hardware alone to play some of these games are just ridiulous. Pc gaming communtiy is not as organized.[/QUOTE]Wow. Such ignorance has not be posted since the days of Wok7.PC online gaming costs nothing. PC hardware doesn't cost that much as all.The PC gaming community is A BILLION times more organized.. People actually know what they're talking about.Seriously....
Here is something you can grasp. I really don't care what it cost Microsoft. I like xbox live and am willing to pay the price. It is much better then the wii and ps3. Simple
[QUOTE=''Kidtendo''][QUOTE=''karasill''] [QUOTE=''Hawkeye1987'']Well I would rather pay 50$ and have a good online service. Sure, PS3 online is free but in my opinion, the features are nowhere near as good as XBL. You get what you pay for. These days, everything costs something. If you get something for free, you get something cheap. [/QUOTE] PC has free online gaming (exception of some MMORPG's) that is better then Xbox live. Care to explain that? Also, I'm sure once Sony launches Home, it'll be up to par with Xbox Live and will probably still be free.[/QUOTE] It maybe free in some regard but alot of games do require fees. The pc hardware alone to play some of these games are just ridiulous. Pc gaming communtiy is not as organized.[/QUOTE] What fees? :| Last time I checked it only applies to SOME MMORPGS.... And very few games require Godly hardware to play and enjoy. The PC has this thing called steam that is just aa organized as Xbox Live, but the great thing about it is that it's free.
[QUOTE=''Relys''][QUOTE=''Kidtendo''][QUOTE=''karasill''][QUOTE=''Hawkeye1987'']Well I would rather pay 50$ and have a good online service. Sure, PS3 online is free but in my opinion, the features are nowhere near as good as XBL. You get what you pay for. These days, everything costs something. If you get something for free, you get something cheap. [/QUOTE] PC has free online gaming (exception of some MMORPG's) that is better then Xbox live. Care to explain that? Also, I'm sure once Sony launches Home, it'll be up to par with Xbox Live and will probably still be free.[/QUOTE]It maybe free in some regard but alot of games do require fees. The pc hardware alone to play some of these games are just ridiulous. Pc gaming communtiy is not as organized.[/QUOTE]Wow. Such ignorance has not be posted since the days of Wok7.PC online gaming costs nothing. PC hardware doesn't cost that much as all.The PC gaming community is A BILLION times more organized.. People actually know what they're talking about.Seriously.... [/QUOTE]You can not be this ignorant. I'm sorry to tell you but the pc gaming is dying a slow death. If you look at multiplatform games and compare pc and console games, Consoles sell on average 10x as much. Cod 4 is a prime example. It sold about 300,00 on the pc, on xbox 360 alone it sold 3.5 million and more. Games like World Of Warcraft, Runescape, and many other games do require a monthly fee to play. In my opinion pc gaming sucks. Sorry but that is the bottom line.
[QUOTE=''Kidtendo'']Here is something you can grasp. I really don't care what it cost Microsoft. I like xbox live and am willing to pay the price. It is much better then the wii and ps3. Simple[/QUOTE] Good for you. ;) Now for people who don't feel like getting ripped off, consider PC gaming, heck even the PS3...
[QUOTE=''RoboThreat'']$50 a year is a great deal.XBL is a Service %26 PSN is a network, it maybe Free... but that doesnt mean its better.[/QUOTE]Most fanboys can't grasp the reality ''you get what you pay for''
Sure your reasons are justified, however P2P!!!! It's not like they need to maintain servers so it's beyond me why they charge for it since everything else in Xbox live costs money too, even a freaking skin or a new gamer tag... P2P is the same as a lan party, should they charge you for those too? You're paying microsoft for something that should be free. It's the principle of the thing.Here is why I pay $50 a year for xbox li ...
Well I would rather pay 50$ and have a good online service. Sure, PS3 online is free but in my opinion, the features are nowhere near as good as XBL. You get what you pay for. These days, everything costs something. If you get something for free, you get something cheap.
[QUOTE=''Hawkeye1987'']Well I would rather pay 50$ and have a good online service. Sure, PS3 online is free but in my opinion, the features are nowhere near as good as XBL. You get what you pay for. These days, everything costs something. If you get something for free, you get something cheap. [/QUOTE] PC has free online gaming (exception of some MMORPG's) that is better then Xbox live. Care to explain that? Also, I'm sure once Sony launches Home, it'll be up to par with Xbox Live and will probably still be free.
[QUOTE=''karasill'']Sure your reasons are justified, however P2P!!!! It's not like they need to maintain servers so it's beyond me why they charge for it since everything else in Xbox live costs money too, even a freaking skin or a new gamer tag... P2P is the same as a lan party, should they charge you for those too? You're paying microsoft for something that should be free. It's the principle of the thing.[/QUOTE]p2p isn't free. They have to organize it so strangers and friends alike join a game. They also have to maintain gamers score, reputation, and many other things. Its not like you say free. Those other things you say are optional. Not neccessary.
[QUOTE=''Hawkeye1987'']Well I would rather pay 50$ and have a good online service. Sure, PS3 online is free but in my opinion, the features are nowhere near as good as XBL. You get what you pay for. These days, everything costs something. If you get something for free, you get something cheap. [/QUOTE] what about free good apps on the pc? steam+xfire>>>>>>>xbox live
[QUOTE=''Kidtendo'']If your a child who has not job and can't afford it then I might understand, but go mow some lawns and you can get it easily. [/QUOTE]That's what I tell childish console fanboys (aka You) about PC gaming. :)
[QUOTE=''karasill''][QUOTE=''Hawkeye1987'']Well I would rather pay 50$ and have a good online service. Sure, PS3 online is free but in my opinion, the features are nowhere near as good as XBL. You get what you pay for. These days, everything costs something. If you get something for free, you get something cheap. [/QUOTE] PC has free online gaming (exception of some MMORPG's) that is better then Xbox live. Care to explain that? Also, I'm sure once Sony launches Home, it'll be up to par with Xbox Live and will probably still be free.[/QUOTE]It maybe free in some regard but alot of games do require fees. The pc hardware alone to play some of these games are just ridiulous. Pc gaming communtiy is not as organized.
[QUOTE=''karasill'']Sure your reasons are justified, however P2P!!!! It's not like they need to maintain servers so it's beyond me why they charge for it since everything else in Xbox live costs money too, even a freaking skin or a new gamer tag... P2P is the same as a lan party, should they charge you for those too? You're paying microsoft for something that should be free. It's the principle of the thing.[/QUOTE]Exactly.That being said, I'm still going to renew my subscription in a few days. However I hate Microsoft for it.I wish I could find out whoever had the idea and #$%^#$ #$%%26%$%26 #$#$% #%26^($. (Cencored for graphic language, violence and sadistic content.).
[QUOTE=''Kidtendo''][QUOTE=''karasill''] [QUOTE=''Hawkeye1987'']Well I would rather pay 50$ and have a good online service. Sure, PS3 online is free but in my opinion, the features are nowhere near as good as XBL. You get what you pay for. These days, everything costs something. If you get something for free, you get something cheap. [/QUOTE] PC has free online gaming (exception of some MMORPG's) that is better then Xbox live. Care to explain that? Also, I'm sure once Sony launches Home, it'll be up to par with Xbox Live and will probably still be free.[/QUOTE] It maybe free in some regard but alot of games do require fees. The pc hardware alone to play some of these games are just ridiulous. Pc gaming communtiy is not as organized.[/QUOTE] ???? because you think xbox live is more organized?
Yes all that stuff is nice but it costs microsoft id say about nothing. They are making a full profit on xbox live. That is crap.
[QUOTE=''Kidtendo'']5. Games are integrated for xbox live. Yeah most are p2p but its easily the best console online system ever. Sorry if you cows don't get that and want to live in ps3 fantasy world. Wii and PS3 got a long long way to go to even compete with live.[/QUOTE] whoa...damage control at it's finest
$50 a year is a great deal.XBL is a Service %26 PSN is a network, it maybe Free... but that doesnt mean its better.
[QUOTE=''Kidtendo''] [QUOTE=''karasill'']Sure your reasons are justified, however P2P!!!! It's not like they need to maintain servers so it's beyond me why they charge for it since everything else in Xbox live costs money too, even a freaking skin or a new gamer tag... P2P is the same as a lan party, should they charge you for those too? You're paying microsoft for something that should be free. It's the principle of the thing.[/QUOTE] p2p isn't free. They have to organize it so strangers and friends alike join a game. They also have to maintain gamers score, reputation, and many other things. Its not like you say free. Those other things you say are optional. Not neccessary.[/QUOTE] P2P isn't? It's just a program that determines who wants to play what and who can offer a decent connection. Everything you've mentioned is maintined by a program that probably costs less then $25,000 to make. No servers are being maintained, P2P is just like having a lan party. It's just connection consoles together, onthing more.
[QUOTE=''Kidtendo''][QUOTE=''karasill''][QUOTE=''Hawkeye1987'']Well I would rather pay 50$ and have a good online service. Sure, PS3 online is free but in my opinion, the features are nowhere near as good as XBL. You get what you pay for. These days, everything costs something. If you get something for free, you get something cheap. [/QUOTE] PC has free online gaming (exception of some MMORPG's) that is better then Xbox live. Care to explain that? Also, I'm sure once Sony launches Home, it'll be up to par with Xbox Live and will probably still be free.[/QUOTE]It maybe free in some regard but alot of games do require fees. The pc hardware alone to play some of these games are just ridiulous. Pc gaming communtiy is not as organized.[/QUOTE]Wow. Such ignorance has not be posted since the days of Wok7.PC online gaming costs nothing. PC hardware doesn't cost that much as all.The PC gaming community is A BILLION times more organized.. People actually know what they're talking about.Seriously....
Here is something you can grasp. I really don't care what it cost Microsoft. I like xbox live and am willing to pay the price. It is much better then the wii and ps3. Simple
[QUOTE=''Kidtendo''][QUOTE=''karasill''] [QUOTE=''Hawkeye1987'']Well I would rather pay 50$ and have a good online service. Sure, PS3 online is free but in my opinion, the features are nowhere near as good as XBL. You get what you pay for. These days, everything costs something. If you get something for free, you get something cheap. [/QUOTE] PC has free online gaming (exception of some MMORPG's) that is better then Xbox live. Care to explain that? Also, I'm sure once Sony launches Home, it'll be up to par with Xbox Live and will probably still be free.[/QUOTE] It maybe free in some regard but alot of games do require fees. The pc hardware alone to play some of these games are just ridiulous. Pc gaming communtiy is not as organized.[/QUOTE] What fees? :| Last time I checked it only applies to SOME MMORPGS.... And very few games require Godly hardware to play and enjoy. The PC has this thing called steam that is just aa organized as Xbox Live, but the great thing about it is that it's free.
[QUOTE=''Relys''][QUOTE=''Kidtendo''][QUOTE=''karasill''][QUOTE=''Hawkeye1987'']Well I would rather pay 50$ and have a good online service. Sure, PS3 online is free but in my opinion, the features are nowhere near as good as XBL. You get what you pay for. These days, everything costs something. If you get something for free, you get something cheap. [/QUOTE] PC has free online gaming (exception of some MMORPG's) that is better then Xbox live. Care to explain that? Also, I'm sure once Sony launches Home, it'll be up to par with Xbox Live and will probably still be free.[/QUOTE]It maybe free in some regard but alot of games do require fees. The pc hardware alone to play some of these games are just ridiulous. Pc gaming communtiy is not as organized.[/QUOTE]Wow. Such ignorance has not be posted since the days of Wok7.PC online gaming costs nothing. PC hardware doesn't cost that much as all.The PC gaming community is A BILLION times more organized.. People actually know what they're talking about.Seriously.... [/QUOTE]You can not be this ignorant. I'm sorry to tell you but the pc gaming is dying a slow death. If you look at multiplatform games and compare pc and console games, Consoles sell on average 10x as much. Cod 4 is a prime example. It sold about 300,00 on the pc, on xbox 360 alone it sold 3.5 million and more. Games like World Of Warcraft, Runescape, and many other games do require a monthly fee to play. In my opinion pc gaming sucks. Sorry but that is the bottom line.
[QUOTE=''Kidtendo'']Here is something you can grasp. I really don't care what it cost Microsoft. I like xbox live and am willing to pay the price. It is much better then the wii and ps3. Simple[/QUOTE] Good for you. ;) Now for people who don't feel like getting ripped off, consider PC gaming, heck even the PS3...
[QUOTE=''RoboThreat'']$50 a year is a great deal.XBL is a Service %26 PSN is a network, it maybe Free... but that doesnt mean its better.[/QUOTE]Most fanboys can't grasp the reality ''you get what you pay for''
How many people actually bought a HD-DVD ...
Wondering how many early adopters got ripped by the failure of HD-DVD?How many people actually bought a HD-DVD ...
not meHow many people actually bought a HD-DVD ...
I bought it and sold it back on ebay less than a week later.
[QUOTE=''caligamer'']Wondering how many early adopters got ripped by the failure of HD-DVD?[/QUOTE] How did they get ripped off? Suddenly they can no longer enjoy the movies that are already made on HDDVD? Suddenly the HDDVD add-on ceases to work and its just a pretty ugly box? THe movies themselves will desolve into puddles of goo and make everything sticky?
50 dollars a month or so ago:) for the hd dvd addon i paid a total of 2.29 :)31 hd dvd movies owned as of today waiting for my 5 free hd dvds in the mail, i spent a total of 200 dollars on hd dvd movies..the equivilent price for the movies on blu ray? 400-500 dollars *took advantage of a lot of deals including the 30% off all hd dvds at bestbuy* currently looking into buying more some of the movies i purchased aren't available on blu ray yet, and probably will never be..why would the company release the movie for a 2nd time in such a short time?All together im happy, I own an ps3 so if i ever get into blu ray once it comes down in price ill be able, right now i can enjoy HIGH DEF *not really heres a fact people need to know, if a movie wasn't natively shot in high definition then no amount of remastering will make it true HD because the original source material was still shot in a lower resolution* but yeah if i wanna enjoy it then i can for a cheaper price then adopting blu ray.
I bought one. Never really saw a big difference in quality except for in animated movies.I knew the risks going in, therefore only invested in 2 movies.However, I still have it , and am looking forward to the drastic price cuts that will surely come for the format as retailers clear out their inventory ;) I wonder how many HD-DVDs I will be able to pick up for $5-10 just because stores are trying to get rid of them :)
[QUOTE=''_koolgirl_''] I bought one. Never really saw a big difference in quality except for in animated movies.I knew the risks going in, therefore only invested in 2 movies.However, I still have it , and am looking forward to the drastic price cuts that will surely come for the format as retailers clear out their inventory ;) I wonder how many HD-DVDs I will be able to pick up for $5-10 just because stores are trying to get rid of them :)[/QUOTE]you've all ready missed the deals....I purchased nearly all my hd dvds for 11-15 bux. through deep discount deals and slickdeals deals and bestbuy 30% off.
[QUOTE=''dotWithShoes''][QUOTE=''caligamer'']Wondering how many early adopters got ripped by the failure of HD-DVD?[/QUOTE] How did they get ripped off? Suddenly they can no longer enjoy the movies that are already made on HDDVD? Suddenly the HDDVD add-on ceases to work and its just a pretty ugly box? THe movies themselves will desolve into puddles of goo and make everything sticky? [/QUOTE]This and, That's the risk you take as an early adopter. I'm sure most people knew the risks when they bought the HD-DVD player.
[QUOTE=''WilliamRLBaker''][QUOTE=''_koolgirl_''] I bought one. Never really saw a big difference in quality except for in animated movies.I knew the risks going in, therefore only invested in 2 movies.However, I still have it , and am looking forward to the drastic price cuts that will surely come for the format as retailers clear out their inventory ;) I wonder how many HD-DVDs I will be able to pick up for $5-10 just because stores are trying to get rid of them :)[/QUOTE] you've all ready missed the deals....I purchased nearly all my hd dvds for 11-15 bux. through deep discount deals and slickdeals deals and bestbuy 30% off.[/QUOTE]Well, dang ;) I was thinking more of retailers like Bestbuy. I would like to get a copy of (shoot now I can't think of the name )that mostly animated crazy movie with Keanu Reeves. I'm interested mostly in animated movies as I don't seem to notice a real visual difference in movies like 300 that I bought.
almost did
i did not. i bought my console for gaming.
[QUOTE=''_koolgirl_''][QUOTE=''WilliamRLBaker''][QUOTE=''_koolgirl_''] I bought one. Never really saw a big difference in quality except for in animated movies.I knew the risks going in, therefore only invested in 2 movies.However, I still have it , and am looking forward to the drastic price cuts that will surely come for the format as retailers clear out their inventory ;) I wonder how many HD-DVDs I will be able to pick up for $5-10 just because stores are trying to get rid of them :)[/QUOTE] you've all ready missed the deals....I purchased nearly all my hd dvds for 11-15 bux. through deep discount deals and slickdeals deals and bestbuy 30% off.[/QUOTE]Well, dang ;) I was thinking more of retailers like Bestbuy. I would like to get a copy of (shoot now I can't think of the name )that mostly animated crazy movie with Keanu Reeves. I'm interested mostly in animated movies as I don't seem to notice a real visual difference in movies like 300 that I bought.[/QUOTE]oh the sales are still going on, you should go check bestbuy your local one they should have hd dvd movies for 30% off or more now, and they have em for sale online.
I got one when it was $50 at Bestbuy with 5 free movies.
movie lame....game good thats been my mindstate for a while...
i didnt......my 360 is for games and games only
how long before some n00b starts blaming M$ for hd-dvd's failure??
[QUOTE=''Bazfrag'']how long before some n00b starts blaming M$ for hd-dvd's failure??[/QUOTE]Yeah it could have gone either way to be honest. Destiny pulled blu-ray out of a hat.
It's not a complete waste if it's a writeable drive. You could use it ala Zip disk. It lost the war but it was still great for transfering and storing data.
It was $50 and I got 6 free movies with it. It keeps hours off my PS3 and 360's disc drives when I watch dvds and hd-dvd movies are getting blown out a cheap prices.Where is the ''got ripped'' part of all this?
45,000
not meHow many people actually bought a HD-DVD ...
I bought it and sold it back on ebay less than a week later.
[QUOTE=''caligamer'']Wondering how many early adopters got ripped by the failure of HD-DVD?[/QUOTE] How did they get ripped off? Suddenly they can no longer enjoy the movies that are already made on HDDVD? Suddenly the HDDVD add-on ceases to work and its just a pretty ugly box? THe movies themselves will desolve into puddles of goo and make everything sticky?
50 dollars a month or so ago:) for the hd dvd addon i paid a total of 2.29 :)31 hd dvd movies owned as of today waiting for my 5 free hd dvds in the mail, i spent a total of 200 dollars on hd dvd movies..the equivilent price for the movies on blu ray? 400-500 dollars *took advantage of a lot of deals including the 30% off all hd dvds at bestbuy* currently looking into buying more some of the movies i purchased aren't available on blu ray yet, and probably will never be..why would the company release the movie for a 2nd time in such a short time?All together im happy, I own an ps3 so if i ever get into blu ray once it comes down in price ill be able, right now i can enjoy HIGH DEF *not really heres a fact people need to know, if a movie wasn't natively shot in high definition then no amount of remastering will make it true HD because the original source material was still shot in a lower resolution* but yeah if i wanna enjoy it then i can for a cheaper price then adopting blu ray.
I bought one. Never really saw a big difference in quality except for in animated movies.I knew the risks going in, therefore only invested in 2 movies.However, I still have it , and am looking forward to the drastic price cuts that will surely come for the format as retailers clear out their inventory ;) I wonder how many HD-DVDs I will be able to pick up for $5-10 just because stores are trying to get rid of them :)
[QUOTE=''_koolgirl_''] I bought one. Never really saw a big difference in quality except for in animated movies.I knew the risks going in, therefore only invested in 2 movies.However, I still have it , and am looking forward to the drastic price cuts that will surely come for the format as retailers clear out their inventory ;) I wonder how many HD-DVDs I will be able to pick up for $5-10 just because stores are trying to get rid of them :)[/QUOTE]you've all ready missed the deals....I purchased nearly all my hd dvds for 11-15 bux. through deep discount deals and slickdeals deals and bestbuy 30% off.
[QUOTE=''dotWithShoes''][QUOTE=''caligamer'']Wondering how many early adopters got ripped by the failure of HD-DVD?[/QUOTE] How did they get ripped off? Suddenly they can no longer enjoy the movies that are already made on HDDVD? Suddenly the HDDVD add-on ceases to work and its just a pretty ugly box? THe movies themselves will desolve into puddles of goo and make everything sticky? [/QUOTE]This and, That's the risk you take as an early adopter. I'm sure most people knew the risks when they bought the HD-DVD player.
[QUOTE=''WilliamRLBaker''][QUOTE=''_koolgirl_''] I bought one. Never really saw a big difference in quality except for in animated movies.I knew the risks going in, therefore only invested in 2 movies.However, I still have it , and am looking forward to the drastic price cuts that will surely come for the format as retailers clear out their inventory ;) I wonder how many HD-DVDs I will be able to pick up for $5-10 just because stores are trying to get rid of them :)[/QUOTE] you've all ready missed the deals....I purchased nearly all my hd dvds for 11-15 bux. through deep discount deals and slickdeals deals and bestbuy 30% off.[/QUOTE]Well, dang ;) I was thinking more of retailers like Bestbuy. I would like to get a copy of (shoot now I can't think of the name )that mostly animated crazy movie with Keanu Reeves. I'm interested mostly in animated movies as I don't seem to notice a real visual difference in movies like 300 that I bought.
almost did
i did not. i bought my console for gaming.
[QUOTE=''_koolgirl_''][QUOTE=''WilliamRLBaker''][QUOTE=''_koolgirl_''] I bought one. Never really saw a big difference in quality except for in animated movies.I knew the risks going in, therefore only invested in 2 movies.However, I still have it , and am looking forward to the drastic price cuts that will surely come for the format as retailers clear out their inventory ;) I wonder how many HD-DVDs I will be able to pick up for $5-10 just because stores are trying to get rid of them :)[/QUOTE] you've all ready missed the deals....I purchased nearly all my hd dvds for 11-15 bux. through deep discount deals and slickdeals deals and bestbuy 30% off.[/QUOTE]Well, dang ;) I was thinking more of retailers like Bestbuy. I would like to get a copy of (shoot now I can't think of the name )that mostly animated crazy movie with Keanu Reeves. I'm interested mostly in animated movies as I don't seem to notice a real visual difference in movies like 300 that I bought.[/QUOTE]oh the sales are still going on, you should go check bestbuy your local one they should have hd dvd movies for 30% off or more now, and they have em for sale online.
I got one when it was $50 at Bestbuy with 5 free movies.
movie lame....game good thats been my mindstate for a while...
i didnt......my 360 is for games and games only
how long before some n00b starts blaming M$ for hd-dvd's failure??
[QUOTE=''Bazfrag'']how long before some n00b starts blaming M$ for hd-dvd's failure??[/QUOTE]Yeah it could have gone either way to be honest. Destiny pulled blu-ray out of a hat.
It's not a complete waste if it's a writeable drive. You could use it ala Zip disk. It lost the war but it was still great for transfering and storing data.
It was $50 and I got 6 free movies with it. It keeps hours off my PS3 and 360's disc drives when I watch dvds and hd-dvd movies are getting blown out a cheap prices.Where is the ''got ripped'' part of all this?
45,000
My Non Biased Pros AND Cons for Each Con ...
PS3PROSFree OnlineOne of The Cheapest Blu-ray players out theirGreat for Watching any MovieBuilt in WifiController Feels GreatAllows Mods in some GamesDecent OnlineEDIT* Great 2008 line upConsBlu Ray DVD's are somewhat expensive.Still no AAAE on GamespotThe Greatest Exclusive Franchise Coming out in JuneMust use a credit card to buy contentMost exclusives lost to the 360.No Component Cables out of the boxNo HDMI cable out of the box PCPROSAble to be upgraded when ever the user choosesModsGreat OnlineHas One of If not the best looking game CrysisBuilding A Gaming Pc is pretty FunMany great multiplats (e.g) FPS, shooters, RTS, RPG, etc.CONSSometimes all the equipment needed to build a pc is too expensiveNew PC builders could destroy their Rigs even with manuals in handConstantly needs to be upgraded to play the newest games The WiiProsGreat for partiesAppeals to all audiences no matter what ageHome to the 2007 GOTY Super Mario GalaxyInnovative with the Wii-moteAble to buy your favorite classics on the storeHas a pretty good line up for 2008Cheap Console PriceCONSOnline is in last place compared to the PSN and XBLNot many 3rd party Games are availableToo Much ShovelwareGames dont quite look as good as the PS3 and 360 gamesOnly a Few games to really buy the console (super mario galaxy, super smash bros brawl, mariokart wii) Xbox 360PROSSuperb OnlineXbox Arcade offers many great games from years agoXbox originals is great, ecspecially if you've never played the great xbox 1 games before$4 dollars a month is a very good deal for live, even so is $50 for 1 year and 1 monthGreat Exclusives, Gears of War, Halo 3, Forza Motorsport 2, Dead Rising, CrackdownGreat 2008 line upAble to play music while your gamingCONSThe RRoD affects many consolesNo Built in WifiNo Modding is availableSometimes the asking price for some content is unreasonableOnce you buy a movie and press play it goes away in 24 hoursEveryone who bought a built in HD-DVD player is kind of screwed (but HD-DVD movies are still selling)Not Very popular in JapanConsole Malfunctions (besides the RRoD) be sure to tell me if i missed something important for each console My Non Biased Pros AND Cons for Each Con ...
*Constantly needs to be upgraded to play the newest games* :S how many times must we disprove that? Seriously. infact, I'm not bothering anymore.My Non Biased Pros AND Cons for Each Con ...
the PS3 pros''Great for Watching any Movie''and''controller feels great''should be there, the PC and the 360 are also great for watching movies, and personally... i prefer the 360 controller over the PS3 controller any day of the weekalso gears of war is not an exclusive
[QUOTE=''st1ka'']the PS3 pros''Great for Watching any Movie''and''controller feels great''should be there, the PC and the 360 are also great for watching movies, and personally... i prefer the 360 controller over the PS3 controller any day of the week[/QUOTE]and the fact that you can use any console controler on the PC.
[QUOTE=''cobrax25''][QUOTE=''st1ka'']the PS3 pros''Great for Watching any Movie''and''controller feels great''should be there, the PC and the 360 are also great for watching movies, and personally... i prefer the 360 controller over the PS3 controller any day of the week[/QUOTE]and the fact that you can use any console controler on the PC.[/QUOTE]i didnt mention that because you dont need that in most PC games, FPS plays better on Keyboard and mouse, strategy, MMORPG, RPG plays better on the mouse, the only exceptions i can think of are sports and racing games
[QUOTE=''st1ka''][QUOTE=''cobrax25''][QUOTE=''st1ka'']the PS3 pros''Great for Watching any Movie''and''controller feels great''should be there, the PC and the 360 are also great for watching movies, and personally... i prefer the 360 controller over the PS3 controller any day of the week[/QUOTE]and the fact that you can use any console controler on the PC.[/QUOTE]i didnt mention that because you dont need that in most PC games, FPS plays better on Keyboard and mouse, strategy, MMORPG, RPG plays better on the mouse, the only exceptions i can think of are sports and racing games [/QUOTE]Games like AC and DMC :P
Add ''Most AAA and AA exclusives this gen'' to the PC.
[QUOTE=''jangojay''][QUOTE=''st1ka''][QUOTE=''cobrax25''][QUOTE=''st1ka'']the PS3 pros''Great for Watching any Movie''and''controller feels great''should be there, the PC and the 360 are also great for watching movies, and personally... i prefer the 360 controller over the PS3 controller any day of the week[/QUOTE]and the fact that you can use any console controler on the PC.[/QUOTE]i didnt mention that because you dont need that in most PC games, FPS plays better on Keyboard and mouse, strategy, MMORPG, RPG plays better on the mouse, the only exceptions i can think of are sports and racing games [/QUOTE]Games like AC and DMC :P[/QUOTE]ok ill give you that :P
You said the 360 has a great 2008 lineup. So does the PS3. Change it.
[This message was deleted at the request of a moderator or administrator]
[QUOTE=''PC360Wii'']And ofcourse ... Emulation ... 4 player Super Bomberman is freaking awesome xD [/QUOTE]there is a reason we didnt mention that, edit your post NOW
Wii - Best Graphics360 - Most ReliablePS3 - Best Exclusives
Nice list. Some of it is a matter of opinion, but in the grand scheme of things it's solid enough so I won't even point them out. Good post.
[QUOTE=''the_h_bomb'']Wii - Best Graphics360 - Most ReliablePS3 - Best Exclusives[/QUOTE]wait....what? oh its sarcasm.... the funnies
[QUOTE=''st1ka''][QUOTE=''PC360Wii'']And ofcourse ... Emulation ... 4 player Super Bomberman is freaking awesome xD [/QUOTE]there is a reason we didnt mention that, edit your post NOW[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure mentioning it isnt illegal? we discuss piracy all the time on this forum ... advertising/linking is against the rules right?
[QUOTE=''st1ka''][QUOTE=''the_h_bomb''] Wii - Best Graphics360 - Most ReliablePS3 - Best Exclusives[/QUOTE]wait....what? oh its sarcasm.... the funnies[/QUOTE]its the_h_bomb....you know he might be serious
[QUOTE=''PC360Wii''][QUOTE=''st1ka''][QUOTE=''PC360Wii'']And ofcourse ... Emulation ... 4 player Super Bomberman is freaking awesome xD [/QUOTE]there is a reason we didnt mention that, edit your post NOW[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure mentioning it isnt illegal? we discuss piracy all the time on this forum ... advertising/linking is against the rules right? [/QUOTE]iv been suspended once for saying you could play SNES on a certain hand-held once, im not taking any chances
why would acknowledging that emulation exists get you in trouble?
[QUOTE=''Wahoo2k'']why would acknowledging that emulation exists get you in trouble?[/QUOTE]good question, one that i never got a proper answer
WARNING! More than 5 quotes in a post, flaming, trolling and posting in an account suicide thread will result in a moderation, and a possible suspension on your account. In addition, discussion about Downgraders, Emulators, Flash Cards, ROMs and Homebrew can also lead to a suspension or the possibility of permanent ban.Apparently that includes mentions of emulation, not just actual discussion of it.
*Constantly needs to be upgraded to play the newest games* :S how many times must we disprove that? Seriously. infact, I'm not bothering anymore.My Non Biased Pros AND Cons for Each Con ...
the PS3 pros''Great for Watching any Movie''and''controller feels great''should be there, the PC and the 360 are also great for watching movies, and personally... i prefer the 360 controller over the PS3 controller any day of the weekalso gears of war is not an exclusive
[QUOTE=''st1ka'']the PS3 pros''Great for Watching any Movie''and''controller feels great''should be there, the PC and the 360 are also great for watching movies, and personally... i prefer the 360 controller over the PS3 controller any day of the week[/QUOTE]and the fact that you can use any console controler on the PC.
[QUOTE=''cobrax25''][QUOTE=''st1ka'']the PS3 pros''Great for Watching any Movie''and''controller feels great''should be there, the PC and the 360 are also great for watching movies, and personally... i prefer the 360 controller over the PS3 controller any day of the week[/QUOTE]and the fact that you can use any console controler on the PC.[/QUOTE]i didnt mention that because you dont need that in most PC games, FPS plays better on Keyboard and mouse, strategy, MMORPG, RPG plays better on the mouse, the only exceptions i can think of are sports and racing games
[QUOTE=''st1ka''][QUOTE=''cobrax25''][QUOTE=''st1ka'']the PS3 pros''Great for Watching any Movie''and''controller feels great''should be there, the PC and the 360 are also great for watching movies, and personally... i prefer the 360 controller over the PS3 controller any day of the week[/QUOTE]and the fact that you can use any console controler on the PC.[/QUOTE]i didnt mention that because you dont need that in most PC games, FPS plays better on Keyboard and mouse, strategy, MMORPG, RPG plays better on the mouse, the only exceptions i can think of are sports and racing games [/QUOTE]Games like AC and DMC :P
Add ''Most AAA and AA exclusives this gen'' to the PC.
[QUOTE=''jangojay''][QUOTE=''st1ka''][QUOTE=''cobrax25''][QUOTE=''st1ka'']the PS3 pros''Great for Watching any Movie''and''controller feels great''should be there, the PC and the 360 are also great for watching movies, and personally... i prefer the 360 controller over the PS3 controller any day of the week[/QUOTE]and the fact that you can use any console controler on the PC.[/QUOTE]i didnt mention that because you dont need that in most PC games, FPS plays better on Keyboard and mouse, strategy, MMORPG, RPG plays better on the mouse, the only exceptions i can think of are sports and racing games [/QUOTE]Games like AC and DMC :P[/QUOTE]ok ill give you that :P
You said the 360 has a great 2008 lineup. So does the PS3. Change it.
[This message was deleted at the request of a moderator or administrator]
[QUOTE=''PC360Wii'']And ofcourse ... Emulation ... 4 player Super Bomberman is freaking awesome xD [/QUOTE]there is a reason we didnt mention that, edit your post NOW
Wii - Best Graphics360 - Most ReliablePS3 - Best Exclusives
Nice list. Some of it is a matter of opinion, but in the grand scheme of things it's solid enough so I won't even point them out. Good post.
[QUOTE=''the_h_bomb'']Wii - Best Graphics360 - Most ReliablePS3 - Best Exclusives[/QUOTE]wait....what? oh its sarcasm.... the funnies
[QUOTE=''st1ka''][QUOTE=''PC360Wii'']And ofcourse ... Emulation ... 4 player Super Bomberman is freaking awesome xD [/QUOTE]there is a reason we didnt mention that, edit your post NOW[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure mentioning it isnt illegal? we discuss piracy all the time on this forum ... advertising/linking is against the rules right?
[QUOTE=''st1ka''][QUOTE=''the_h_bomb''] Wii - Best Graphics360 - Most ReliablePS3 - Best Exclusives[/QUOTE]wait....what? oh its sarcasm.... the funnies[/QUOTE]its the_h_bomb....you know he might be serious
[QUOTE=''PC360Wii''][QUOTE=''st1ka''][QUOTE=''PC360Wii'']And ofcourse ... Emulation ... 4 player Super Bomberman is freaking awesome xD [/QUOTE]there is a reason we didnt mention that, edit your post NOW[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure mentioning it isnt illegal? we discuss piracy all the time on this forum ... advertising/linking is against the rules right? [/QUOTE]iv been suspended once for saying you could play SNES on a certain hand-held once, im not taking any chances
why would acknowledging that emulation exists get you in trouble?
[QUOTE=''Wahoo2k'']why would acknowledging that emulation exists get you in trouble?[/QUOTE]good question, one that i never got a proper answer
WARNING! More than 5 quotes in a post, flaming, trolling and posting in an account suicide thread will result in a moderation, and a possible suspension on your account. In addition, discussion about Downgraders, Emulators, Flash Cards, ROMs and Homebrew can also lead to a suspension or the possibility of permanent ban.Apparently that includes mentions of emulation, not just actual discussion of it.
Those who have both PS3 and Xbox 360 ONL ...
i know that there has probably been a lot of these topics but i am really torn. i dont know which one to get. the PS3 doesnt seem to have any good games now but it has FFXIII and FFVersusXIII to look forward to while the Xbox 360 has good games already and has Halo 3 to look forward to. which do u think i should get and why? please no bias answers.Those who have both PS3 and Xbox 360 ONL ...
No one here can make that decision. You have to do the research yourself and see which system's library of games caters to your taste more.Those who have both PS3 and Xbox 360 ONL ...
[QUOTE=''DA_B0MB'']No one here can make that decision. You have to do the research yourself and see which system's library of games caters to your taste more.[/QUOTE]
Well said and personally I hate how people say the PS3 has no good games, Resistance Fall of Man is a great game.
If you want a great concel then PS3, if you want a fun concel xbox 360. Get Xbox 360 if you want a concel so bad right now, but i think you should wait for the PS3 because since i've got it i couldn't stop playing it.
[QUOTE=''chaosX303''][QUOTE=''DA_B0MB'']No one here can make that decision. You have to do the research yourself and see which system's library of games caters to your taste more.[/QUOTE]
Well said and personally I hate how people say the PS3 has no good games, Resistance Fall of Man is a great game.[/QUOTE]
ok 1 good game then
i only have a wii and i want to get another console but i can't decide either!
You really have to look at each line up for yourself. The 360 has more games out right now but the PS3 still has some great games out right now as well. The PS3 is my favorite system so far. But mainly b/c it has more games that I'm looking forward to this year. It all depends on what games you like.
[QUOTE=''Zero5000X''][QUOTE=''chaosX303''][QUOTE=''DA_B0MB'']No one here can make that decision. You have to do the research yourself and see which system's library of games caters to your taste more.[/QUOTE]
Well said and personally I hate how people say the PS3 has no good games, Resistance Fall of Man is a great game.[/QUOTE]
ok 1 good game then[/QUOTE]
It seems as if you've already made up your mind then
[QUOTE=''Zero5000X''][QUOTE=''chaosX303''][QUOTE=''DA_B0MB'']No one here can make that decision. You have to do the research yourself and see which system's library of games caters to your taste more.[/QUOTE]
Well said and personally I hate how people say the PS3 has no good games, Resistance Fall of Man is a great game.[/QUOTE]
ok 1 good game then[/QUOTE]
U just freaking decided by youself!
[QUOTE=''-KinGz-''][QUOTE=''Zero5000X''][QUOTE=''chaosX303''][QUOTE=''DA_B0MB'']No one here can make that decision. You have to do the research yourself and see which system's library of games caters to your taste more.[/QUOTE]
Well said and personally I hate how people say the PS3 has no good games, Resistance Fall of Man is a great game.[/QUOTE]
ok 1 good game then[/QUOTE]
U just freaking decided by youself![/QUOTE]
thats outta the games that r out now. im talking about the future!
I say PS3.If you prefered PS2 last gen your gonna prefer PS3 easilyDon't listen to fanboys with PS3 has no games now, I mean are you gonna die this month or something? I doubt so. Also forget the crap with 360 with they great looking new IPs. thing is they can flop in like crack down. While PS3 has PROVEN franchisesSure I have a 360 now but am getting PS3 soon. (PS3 was just launched when I had visited the states)
[QUOTE=''Zero5000X''][QUOTE=''chaosX303''][QUOTE=''DA_B0MB'']No one here can make that decision. You have to do the research yourself and see which system's library of games caters to your taste more.[/QUOTE] Well said and personally I hate how people say the PS3 has no good games, Resistance Fall of Man is a great game.[/QUOTE] ok 1 good game then[/QUOTE] Hardly. There is R:FOM, RR7, VF5, Motorstorm is out next week, NBA 2K7, Blazing Angels, COD3, FNR3, etc. Yes, there are more games on the 360, but there certainly isn't a lack of good games on the PS3 either. If you have an HDTV already then the PS3 is the easy choice... otherwise it is a tougher decision.
well ps3 now has virtua fighter 5, motorstorm and oblivions coming.lair is supposedly coming in May. if u dont have a ps2 get god of war2 and some other good ps2 games.
[QUOTE=''Zero5000X'']thats outta the games that r out now. im talking about the future![/QUOTE]
But we cannot determine which future games will be to your liking and which ones won't. That is a personal decision you will have to make.
I have all three and I really prefer the 360, but utlimatley it's up to your own individual taste
i like my ps3 better, but to be fair i have always liked sony a little more than MS, but there both great.
For people who say PS3 doesnt have any good games....................your in idiot in my opinion. Theres plenty of games that are good that will come out in the future such as, motostorm(coming out in 3 days according to ign), warhawkcoming in june) and other game out there, that will satify me.
And for the people who argue about 360 have more exclusives and more IPs, how do people even know the game is gonna be good or bad, because crackdown was just a silly excuse to get a piece of that Halo3, imo.
I'm sorry...I'm going to sound like a complete idiot.
But what's an IP?
[QUOTE=''Ken0690'']For people who say PS3 doesnt have any good games....................your in idiot in my opinion. Theres plenty of games that are good that will come out in the future such as, motostorm(coming out in 3 days according to ign), warhawkcoming in june) and other game out there, that will satify me.
[/QUOTE] they are talking about games out right now.
[QUOTE=''2largeadults'']I'm sorry...I'm going to sound like a complete idiot. But what's an IP?[/QUOTE] i dont know what it stands forr but its like franchises.
No one here can make that decision. You have to do the research yourself and see which system's library of games caters to your taste more.Those who have both PS3 and Xbox 360 ONL ...
[QUOTE=''DA_B0MB'']No one here can make that decision. You have to do the research yourself and see which system's library of games caters to your taste more.[/QUOTE]
Well said and personally I hate how people say the PS3 has no good games, Resistance Fall of Man is a great game.
If you want a great concel then PS3, if you want a fun concel xbox 360. Get Xbox 360 if you want a concel so bad right now, but i think you should wait for the PS3 because since i've got it i couldn't stop playing it.
[QUOTE=''chaosX303''][QUOTE=''DA_B0MB'']No one here can make that decision. You have to do the research yourself and see which system's library of games caters to your taste more.[/QUOTE]
Well said and personally I hate how people say the PS3 has no good games, Resistance Fall of Man is a great game.[/QUOTE]
ok 1 good game then
i only have a wii and i want to get another console but i can't decide either!
You really have to look at each line up for yourself. The 360 has more games out right now but the PS3 still has some great games out right now as well. The PS3 is my favorite system so far. But mainly b/c it has more games that I'm looking forward to this year. It all depends on what games you like.
[QUOTE=''Zero5000X''][QUOTE=''chaosX303''][QUOTE=''DA_B0MB'']No one here can make that decision. You have to do the research yourself and see which system's library of games caters to your taste more.[/QUOTE]
Well said and personally I hate how people say the PS3 has no good games, Resistance Fall of Man is a great game.[/QUOTE]
ok 1 good game then[/QUOTE]
It seems as if you've already made up your mind then
[QUOTE=''Zero5000X''][QUOTE=''chaosX303''][QUOTE=''DA_B0MB'']No one here can make that decision. You have to do the research yourself and see which system's library of games caters to your taste more.[/QUOTE]
Well said and personally I hate how people say the PS3 has no good games, Resistance Fall of Man is a great game.[/QUOTE]
ok 1 good game then[/QUOTE]
U just freaking decided by youself!
[QUOTE=''-KinGz-''][QUOTE=''Zero5000X''][QUOTE=''chaosX303''][QUOTE=''DA_B0MB'']No one here can make that decision. You have to do the research yourself and see which system's library of games caters to your taste more.[/QUOTE]
Well said and personally I hate how people say the PS3 has no good games, Resistance Fall of Man is a great game.[/QUOTE]
ok 1 good game then[/QUOTE]
U just freaking decided by youself![/QUOTE]
thats outta the games that r out now. im talking about the future!
I say PS3.If you prefered PS2 last gen your gonna prefer PS3 easilyDon't listen to fanboys with PS3 has no games now, I mean are you gonna die this month or something? I doubt so. Also forget the crap with 360 with they great looking new IPs. thing is they can flop in like crack down. While PS3 has PROVEN franchisesSure I have a 360 now but am getting PS3 soon. (PS3 was just launched when I had visited the states)
[QUOTE=''Zero5000X''][QUOTE=''chaosX303''][QUOTE=''DA_B0MB'']No one here can make that decision. You have to do the research yourself and see which system's library of games caters to your taste more.[/QUOTE] Well said and personally I hate how people say the PS3 has no good games, Resistance Fall of Man is a great game.[/QUOTE] ok 1 good game then[/QUOTE] Hardly. There is R:FOM, RR7, VF5, Motorstorm is out next week, NBA 2K7, Blazing Angels, COD3, FNR3, etc. Yes, there are more games on the 360, but there certainly isn't a lack of good games on the PS3 either. If you have an HDTV already then the PS3 is the easy choice... otherwise it is a tougher decision.
well ps3 now has virtua fighter 5, motorstorm and oblivions coming.lair is supposedly coming in May. if u dont have a ps2 get god of war2 and some other good ps2 games.
[QUOTE=''Zero5000X'']thats outta the games that r out now. im talking about the future![/QUOTE]
But we cannot determine which future games will be to your liking and which ones won't. That is a personal decision you will have to make.
I have all three and I really prefer the 360, but utlimatley it's up to your own individual taste
i like my ps3 better, but to be fair i have always liked sony a little more than MS, but there both great.
For people who say PS3 doesnt have any good games....................your in idiot in my opinion. Theres plenty of games that are good that will come out in the future such as, motostorm(coming out in 3 days according to ign), warhawkcoming in june) and other game out there, that will satify me.
And for the people who argue about 360 have more exclusives and more IPs, how do people even know the game is gonna be good or bad, because crackdown was just a silly excuse to get a piece of that Halo3, imo.
I'm sorry...I'm going to sound like a complete idiot.
But what's an IP?
[QUOTE=''Ken0690'']For people who say PS3 doesnt have any good games....................your in idiot in my opinion. Theres plenty of games that are good that will come out in the future such as, motostorm(coming out in 3 days according to ign), warhawkcoming in june) and other game out there, that will satify me.
[/QUOTE] they are talking about games out right now.
[QUOTE=''2largeadults'']I'm sorry...I'm going to sound like a complete idiot. But what's an IP?[/QUOTE] i dont know what it stands forr but its like franchises.
Question about the PS3's non unified RAM ...
I know it has 256mb of ram and 256mb of ram dedicated the the video card. My questions is 1. How does this limit the PS3? If you have 256mb of ram...why cant devs just dip into the video memory? Is that video memory just going to waste? Also...how is it limiting the PS3 2. how is this beneicial at all for the PS3? Why would sony dedicate the 256mb oof ram for the PS3 video? Iknow that the video memory is XDR...making it waaaaaay faster than just ddr or something.Question about the PS3's non unified RAM ...
[QUOTE=''the_dark-knight'']I know it has 256mb of ram and 256mb of ram dedicated the the video card. My questions is 1. How does this limit the PS3? If you have 256mb of ram...why cant devs just dip into the video memory? Is that video memory just going to waste? Also...how is it limiting the PS3 2. how is this beneicial at all for the PS3? Why would sony dedicate the 256mb oof ram for the PS3 video? Iknow that the video memory is XDR...making it waaaaaay faster than just ddr or something.[/QUOTE] You're getting it backwards. The video RAM is what the PS3 is short on. 256MB of main memory is enough for what the PS3 does. Also, the video memory is GDDR3, not XDR. The MAIN MEMORY is XDR.Question about the PS3's non unified RAM ...
Bump
[QUOTE=''mjarantilla''][QUOTE=''the_dark-knight'']I know it has 256mb of ram and 256mb of ram dedicated the the video card. My questions is 1. How does this limit the PS3? If you have 256mb of ram...why cant devs just dip into the video memory? Is that video memory just going to waste? Also...how is it limiting the PS3 2. how is this beneicial at all for the PS3? Why would sony dedicate the 256mb oof ram for the PS3 video? Iknow that the video memory is XDR...making it waaaaaay faster than just ddr or something.[/QUOTE] You're getting it backwards. The video RAM is what the PS3 is short on. 256MB of main memory is enough for what the PS3 does. Also, the video memory is GDDR3, not XDR. The MAIN MEMORY is XDR.[/QUOTE]Oh...lol. Than why cant developers dip into the XDR? Is it blocked of or something?
Sonys latest dev kits allow developers to easily combine the ram. At least that is the last I have heard.
[QUOTE=''Wasdie'']Sonys latest dev kits allow developers to easily combine the ram. At least that is the last I have heard.[/QUOTE]Shame most games would have taken a long time to develop and probably are too late in development to take advantage of this shocking development.
[QUOTE=''Wasdie'']Sonys latest dev kits allow developers to easily combine the ram. At least that is the last I have heard.[/QUOTE] Really? Linky Please.
[QUOTE=''the_dark-knight'']I know it has 256mb of ram and 256mb of ram dedicated the the video card. My questions is 1. How does this limit the PS3? If you have 256mb of ram...why cant devs just dip into the video memory? Is that video memory just going to waste? Also...how is it limiting the PS3 2. how is this beneicial at all for the PS3? Why would sony dedicate the 256mb oof ram for the PS3 video? Iknow that the video memory is XDR...making it waaaaaay faster than just ddr or something.[/QUOTE]
1. It doesn't limit the PS3. The RSX is a Turbocache GPU, it can access and utilize both VRAM and system RAM. A game system is going to use more RAM for graphics/video than anything else. So it is a case where the GPU would need to supplement with system RAM rather than vice versa.
2. Specialization. VRAM is great for loading and unloading large amounts of data at ounce but isn't as practical for smaller discrete data transactions.
[QUOTE=''skektek''][QUOTE=''the_dark-knight'']I know it has 256mb of ram and 256mb of ram dedicated the the video card. My questions is 1. How does this limit the PS3? If you have 256mb of ram...why cant devs just dip into the video memory? Is that video memory just going to waste? Also...how is it limiting the PS3 2. how is this beneicial at all for the PS3? Why would sony dedicate the 256mb oof ram for the PS3 video? Iknow that the video memory is XDR...making it waaaaaay faster than just ddr or something.[/QUOTE] 1. It doesn't limit the PS3. The RSX is a Turbocache GPU, it can access and utilize both VRAM and system RAM. A game system is going to use more RAM for graphics/video than anything else. So it is a case where the GPU would need to supplement with system RAM rather than vice versa. 2. Specialization. VRAM is great for loading and unloading large amounts of data at ounce but isn't as practical for smaller discrete data transactions.[/QUOTE]So dev problems are arising from cell...not the memory architecture.
[QUOTE=''the_dark-knight''][QUOTE=''Wasdie'']Sonys latest dev kits allow developers to easily combine the ram. At least that is the last I have heard.[/QUOTE] Really? Linky Please.[/QUOTE]See that is the thing I have only heard about it. I don't really have a link. So it could be false. Yet seeing games like Uncharted, Killzone 2, GT5 P, I don't think the ram is a problem.
[QUOTE=''the_dark-knight''][QUOTE=''skektek''][QUOTE=''the_dark-knight'']I know it has 256mb of ram and 256mb of ram dedicated the the video card. My questions is 1. How does this limit the PS3? If you have 256mb of ram...why cant devs just dip into the video memory? Is that video memory just going to waste? Also...how is it limiting the PS3 2. how is this beneicial at all for the PS3? Why would sony dedicate the 256mb oof ram for the PS3 video? Iknow that the video memory is XDR...making it waaaaaay faster than just ddr or something.[/QUOTE] 1. It doesn't limit the PS3. The RSX is a Turbocache GPU, it can access and utilize both VRAM and system RAM. A game system is going to use more RAM for graphics/video than anything else. So it is a case where the GPU would need to supplement with system RAM rather than vice versa. 2. Specialization. VRAM is great for loading and unloading large amounts of data at ounce but isn't as practical for smaller discrete data transactions.[/QUOTE]So dev problems are arising from cell...not the memory architecture.[/QUOTE]What development problems are you speaking of?
[QUOTE=''skektek''][QUOTE=''the_dark-knight''][QUOTE=''skektek''][QUOTE=''the_dark-knight'']I know it has 256mb of ram and 256mb of ram dedicated the the video card. My questions is 1. How does this limit the PS3? If you have 256mb of ram...why cant devs just dip into the video memory? Is that video memory just going to waste? Also...how is it limiting the PS3 2. how is this beneicial at all for the PS3? Why would sony dedicate the 256mb oof ram for the PS3 video? Iknow that the video memory is XDR...making it waaaaaay faster than just ddr or something.[/QUOTE] 1. It doesn't limit the PS3. The RSX is a Turbocache GPU, it can access and utilize both VRAM and system RAM. A game system is going to use more RAM for graphics/video than anything else. So it is a case where the GPU would need to supplement with system RAM rather than vice versa. 2. Specialization. VRAM is great for loading and unloading large amounts of data at ounce but isn't as practical for smaller discrete data transactions.[/QUOTE]So dev problems are arising from cell...not the memory architecture.[/QUOTE]What development problems are you speaking of?[/QUOTE]Well I believe GTAIV was pushed back do to optimizing the PS3(imo) so what was their difficulties with the PS3?
Yes mainly from cell. Programming for a regular CPU is a normal process, with the use of sub processors that take the load off the man CPU. With Cell, it is made up of LOTS of sub processors all of which are independantly programable, and that causes for super complex code and program layouts for full function of the cell processor. Where as regualr CPU's jsut have multithreading, its taken to a new level with the Cell and some developers jsut don't care to spend the huge amount of extra time and money to learn it jsut for one console. It's too bad they havent tried to invade the PC market more with cell, because they COULD make it a standard if they tried hard enough. obviously bluray was their main focus.
[QUOTE=''the_dark-knight'']I know it has 256mb of ram and 256mb of ram dedicated the the video card. My questions is 1. How does this limit the PS3? If you have 256mb of ram...why cant devs just dip into the video memory? Is that video memory just going to waste? Also...how is it limiting the PS3 2. how is this beneicial at all for the PS3? Why would sony dedicate the 256mb oof ram for the PS3 video? Iknow that the video memory is XDR...making it waaaaaay faster than just ddr or something.[/QUOTE]It is limiting because too many developers refuse to learn new hardware, and instead, just want to make every game as if it is for PC. With PCs, developers have massive amounts of RAM they essentially use as a crutch. They don't have to worry about efficiency or what type of hardware the user actually has, because that isn't their problem. They just dump as much infor into RAM as they can.When it comes to consoles, the RAM is much less for a number of reasons. However, the PS3 is designed to be a streaming machine and not a ram-dump. So, for developers to make games properly for the system, they have to take it apart, spread the data across the spu's (or whatever they are called) and the recompile the data at the end. It should all be done streaming. When developers use the hardware properly, you get games like Uncharted. However, most devs can't be bothered (maybe budget, maybe time, etc) and so they just try and squeeze their RAM-dump game onto the PS3 with minimal optimization.
In SW, PS3 has RAM issues. In the real world, UT3, Uncharted, GT5P and other games proves the contrary.
[QUOTE=''ZIMdoom''][QUOTE=''the_dark-knight'']I know it has 256mb of ram and 256mb of ram dedicated the the video card. My questions is 1. How does this limit the PS3? If you have 256mb of ram...why cant devs just dip into the video memory? Is that video memory just going to waste? Also...how is it limiting the PS3 2. how is this beneicial at all for the PS3? Why would sony dedicate the 256mb oof ram for the PS3 video? Iknow that the video memory is XDR...making it waaaaaay faster than just ddr or something.[/QUOTE]It is limiting because too many developers refuse to learn new hardware, and instead, just want to make every game as if it is for PC. With PCs, developers have massive amounts of RAM they essentially use as a crutch. They don't have to worry about efficiency or what type of hardware the user actually has, because that isn't their problem. They just dump as much infor into RAM as they can.When it comes to consoles, the RAM is much less for a number of reasons. However, the PS3 is designed to be a streaming machine and not a ram-dump. So, for developers to make games properly for the system, they have to take it apart, spread the data across the spu's (or whatever they are called) and the recompile the data at the end. It should all be done streaming. When developers use the hardware properly, you get games like Uncharted. However, most devs can't be bothered (maybe budget, maybe time, etc) and so they just try and squeeze their RAM-dump game onto the PS3 with minimal optimization. [/QUOTE]Could you imagine how sexy GTAIV could have looked if it were PS3 exclusive? If they utilized everything about ps3? You guys think it would look similar to what it is now? AAnd shouldn't euphoria be better on PS3 since it is a physics heeavy system...which the cell excells in.
I've posted this at least a hundred times.http://research.scea.com/ps3_deferred_shading.pdfGuess what it's about?The pixel shader runs on the Synergistic Processing Elements
(SPEs) of the Cell/B.E. and works concurrently with the GPU to
render images. The system's unified memory architecture allows
the Cell/B.E. and GPU to exchange data through shared textures.
The SPEs use the Cell/B.E. DMA list capability to gather
irregular fine-grained fragments of texture data generated by the
GPU. They return resultant shadow textures the same way. The
shading computation ran at up to 85 Hz at HDTV 720p
resolution on 5 SPEs and generated 30.72 gigaops of
performance. This is comparable to the performance of the
algorithm running on a state of the art high end GPU. These
results indicate that the Cell/B.E. can effectively enhance the
throughput of a GPU in this hybrid system by alleviating the
pixel shading bottleneck. I.E. textures can be shared through shared memory in the Playstation 3 to use integrated, concurrent rendering. This is something the XBox 360 can absolutely NOT do. The Xbox 360 has ''shared'' memory, not ''unified'' memory. You have 512 megs, and then the developer partitions. Unless anybody can give some kind of developer commentary proving that statement false rather than true.The Xbox 360 ends up with partitioned memory....the PS3's memory is naturally partitioned, but the partitions can be overridden, thus removing any fanboy-imposed performance roadblock.By the way, this is straight from Sony, and they've actually done this already. Meaning the memory is unified, period. Thank you.
Good question. I guess it all depends on how the developers use the hardware. For instance, there is an IBM tech demo using a cell processor (similar to the PS3 spu) that can perform realtime raytracing (with additional elements,GI, ambient, specular...etc) without the GPU. So maybe some limitations in GPU memory can be overcome by utalizing the SPUs for certain tasks.
[QUOTE=''BobHipJames'']I've posted this at least a hundred times.http://research.scea.com/ps3_deferred_shading.pdfGuess what it's about?The pixel shader runs on the Synergistic Processing Elements
(SPEs) of the Cell/B.E. and works concurrently with the GPU to
render images. The system's unified memory architecture allows
the Cell/B.E. and GPU to exchange data through shared textures.
The SPEs use the Cell/B.E. DMA list capability to gather
irregular fine-grained fragments of texture data generated by the
GPU. They return resultant shadow textures the same way. The
shading computation ran at up to 85 Hz at HDTV 720p
resolution on 5 SPEs and generated 30.72 gigaops of
performance. This is comparable to the performance of the
algorithm running on a state of the art high end GPU. These
results indicate that the Cell/B.E. can effectively enhance the
throughput of a GPU in this hybrid system by alleviating the
pixel shading bottleneck. I.E. textures can be shared through shared memory in the Playstation 3 to use integrated, concurrent rendering. This is something the XBox 360 can absolutely NOT do. The Xbox 360 has ''shared'' memory, not ''unified'' memory. You have 512 megs, and then the developer partitions. Unless anybody can give some kind of developer commentary proving that statement false rather than true.The Xbox 360 ends up with partitioned memory....the PS3's memory is naturally partitioned, but the partitions can be overridden, thus removing any fanboy-imposed performance roadblock.By the way, this is straight from Sony, and they've actually done this already. Meaning the memory is unified, period. Thank you.[/QUOTE]Nice find James.
[QUOTE=''Phazevariance'']Yes mainly from cell. Programming for a regular CPU is a normal process, with the use of sub processors that take the load off the man CPU. With Cell, it is made up of LOTS of sub processors all of which are independantly programable, and that causes for super complex code and program layouts for full function of the cell processor. Where as regualr CPU's jsut have multithreading, its taken to a new level with the Cell and some developers jsut don't care to spend the huge amount of extra time and money to learn it jsut for one console. It's too bad they havent tried to invade the PC market more with cell, because they COULD make it a standard if they tried hard enough. obviously bluray was their main focus.[/QUOTE]
Multi threading on the Cell is essentially the same as multi threading on any other (multi execution unit) processor it is just a question of degree. The PS3 has nine threads of execution while developers are still wrapping their heads around trying to use 2 - 4 threads. IBM's Octopiler helps* but it takes time for tools and experience to mature.
*if developers want to get the absolute most out of the Cell they would still need build their engines from the ground up specifically for the Cell.
[QUOTE=''the_dark-knight'']I know it has 256mb of ram and 256mb of ram dedicated the the video card. My questions is 1. How does this limit the PS3? If you have 256mb of ram...why cant devs just dip into the video memory? Is that video memory just going to waste? Also...how is it limiting the PS3 2. how is this beneicial at all for the PS3? Why would sony dedicate the 256mb oof ram for the PS3 video? Iknow that the video memory is XDR...making it waaaaaay faster than just ddr or something.[/QUOTE] You're getting it backwards. The video RAM is what the PS3 is short on. 256MB of main memory is enough for what the PS3 does. Also, the video memory is GDDR3, not XDR. The MAIN MEMORY is XDR.Question about the PS3's non unified RAM ...
Bump
[QUOTE=''mjarantilla''][QUOTE=''the_dark-knight'']I know it has 256mb of ram and 256mb of ram dedicated the the video card. My questions is 1. How does this limit the PS3? If you have 256mb of ram...why cant devs just dip into the video memory? Is that video memory just going to waste? Also...how is it limiting the PS3 2. how is this beneicial at all for the PS3? Why would sony dedicate the 256mb oof ram for the PS3 video? Iknow that the video memory is XDR...making it waaaaaay faster than just ddr or something.[/QUOTE] You're getting it backwards. The video RAM is what the PS3 is short on. 256MB of main memory is enough for what the PS3 does. Also, the video memory is GDDR3, not XDR. The MAIN MEMORY is XDR.[/QUOTE]Oh...lol. Than why cant developers dip into the XDR? Is it blocked of or something?
Sonys latest dev kits allow developers to easily combine the ram. At least that is the last I have heard.
[QUOTE=''Wasdie'']Sonys latest dev kits allow developers to easily combine the ram. At least that is the last I have heard.[/QUOTE]Shame most games would have taken a long time to develop and probably are too late in development to take advantage of this shocking development.
[QUOTE=''Wasdie'']Sonys latest dev kits allow developers to easily combine the ram. At least that is the last I have heard.[/QUOTE] Really? Linky Please.
[QUOTE=''the_dark-knight'']I know it has 256mb of ram and 256mb of ram dedicated the the video card. My questions is 1. How does this limit the PS3? If you have 256mb of ram...why cant devs just dip into the video memory? Is that video memory just going to waste? Also...how is it limiting the PS3 2. how is this beneicial at all for the PS3? Why would sony dedicate the 256mb oof ram for the PS3 video? Iknow that the video memory is XDR...making it waaaaaay faster than just ddr or something.[/QUOTE]
1. It doesn't limit the PS3. The RSX is a Turbocache GPU, it can access and utilize both VRAM and system RAM. A game system is going to use more RAM for graphics/video than anything else. So it is a case where the GPU would need to supplement with system RAM rather than vice versa.
2. Specialization. VRAM is great for loading and unloading large amounts of data at ounce but isn't as practical for smaller discrete data transactions.
[QUOTE=''skektek''][QUOTE=''the_dark-knight'']I know it has 256mb of ram and 256mb of ram dedicated the the video card. My questions is 1. How does this limit the PS3? If you have 256mb of ram...why cant devs just dip into the video memory? Is that video memory just going to waste? Also...how is it limiting the PS3 2. how is this beneicial at all for the PS3? Why would sony dedicate the 256mb oof ram for the PS3 video? Iknow that the video memory is XDR...making it waaaaaay faster than just ddr or something.[/QUOTE] 1. It doesn't limit the PS3. The RSX is a Turbocache GPU, it can access and utilize both VRAM and system RAM. A game system is going to use more RAM for graphics/video than anything else. So it is a case where the GPU would need to supplement with system RAM rather than vice versa. 2. Specialization. VRAM is great for loading and unloading large amounts of data at ounce but isn't as practical for smaller discrete data transactions.[/QUOTE]So dev problems are arising from cell...not the memory architecture.
[QUOTE=''the_dark-knight''][QUOTE=''Wasdie'']Sonys latest dev kits allow developers to easily combine the ram. At least that is the last I have heard.[/QUOTE] Really? Linky Please.[/QUOTE]See that is the thing I have only heard about it. I don't really have a link. So it could be false. Yet seeing games like Uncharted, Killzone 2, GT5 P, I don't think the ram is a problem.
[QUOTE=''the_dark-knight''][QUOTE=''skektek''][QUOTE=''the_dark-knight'']I know it has 256mb of ram and 256mb of ram dedicated the the video card. My questions is 1. How does this limit the PS3? If you have 256mb of ram...why cant devs just dip into the video memory? Is that video memory just going to waste? Also...how is it limiting the PS3 2. how is this beneicial at all for the PS3? Why would sony dedicate the 256mb oof ram for the PS3 video? Iknow that the video memory is XDR...making it waaaaaay faster than just ddr or something.[/QUOTE] 1. It doesn't limit the PS3. The RSX is a Turbocache GPU, it can access and utilize both VRAM and system RAM. A game system is going to use more RAM for graphics/video than anything else. So it is a case where the GPU would need to supplement with system RAM rather than vice versa. 2. Specialization. VRAM is great for loading and unloading large amounts of data at ounce but isn't as practical for smaller discrete data transactions.[/QUOTE]So dev problems are arising from cell...not the memory architecture.[/QUOTE]What development problems are you speaking of?
[QUOTE=''skektek''][QUOTE=''the_dark-knight''][QUOTE=''skektek''][QUOTE=''the_dark-knight'']I know it has 256mb of ram and 256mb of ram dedicated the the video card. My questions is 1. How does this limit the PS3? If you have 256mb of ram...why cant devs just dip into the video memory? Is that video memory just going to waste? Also...how is it limiting the PS3 2. how is this beneicial at all for the PS3? Why would sony dedicate the 256mb oof ram for the PS3 video? Iknow that the video memory is XDR...making it waaaaaay faster than just ddr or something.[/QUOTE] 1. It doesn't limit the PS3. The RSX is a Turbocache GPU, it can access and utilize both VRAM and system RAM. A game system is going to use more RAM for graphics/video than anything else. So it is a case where the GPU would need to supplement with system RAM rather than vice versa. 2. Specialization. VRAM is great for loading and unloading large amounts of data at ounce but isn't as practical for smaller discrete data transactions.[/QUOTE]So dev problems are arising from cell...not the memory architecture.[/QUOTE]What development problems are you speaking of?[/QUOTE]Well I believe GTAIV was pushed back do to optimizing the PS3(imo) so what was their difficulties with the PS3?
Yes mainly from cell. Programming for a regular CPU is a normal process, with the use of sub processors that take the load off the man CPU. With Cell, it is made up of LOTS of sub processors all of which are independantly programable, and that causes for super complex code and program layouts for full function of the cell processor. Where as regualr CPU's jsut have multithreading, its taken to a new level with the Cell and some developers jsut don't care to spend the huge amount of extra time and money to learn it jsut for one console. It's too bad they havent tried to invade the PC market more with cell, because they COULD make it a standard if they tried hard enough. obviously bluray was their main focus.
[QUOTE=''the_dark-knight'']I know it has 256mb of ram and 256mb of ram dedicated the the video card. My questions is 1. How does this limit the PS3? If you have 256mb of ram...why cant devs just dip into the video memory? Is that video memory just going to waste? Also...how is it limiting the PS3 2. how is this beneicial at all for the PS3? Why would sony dedicate the 256mb oof ram for the PS3 video? Iknow that the video memory is XDR...making it waaaaaay faster than just ddr or something.[/QUOTE]It is limiting because too many developers refuse to learn new hardware, and instead, just want to make every game as if it is for PC. With PCs, developers have massive amounts of RAM they essentially use as a crutch. They don't have to worry about efficiency or what type of hardware the user actually has, because that isn't their problem. They just dump as much infor into RAM as they can.When it comes to consoles, the RAM is much less for a number of reasons. However, the PS3 is designed to be a streaming machine and not a ram-dump. So, for developers to make games properly for the system, they have to take it apart, spread the data across the spu's (or whatever they are called) and the recompile the data at the end. It should all be done streaming. When developers use the hardware properly, you get games like Uncharted. However, most devs can't be bothered (maybe budget, maybe time, etc) and so they just try and squeeze their RAM-dump game onto the PS3 with minimal optimization.
In SW, PS3 has RAM issues. In the real world, UT3, Uncharted, GT5P and other games proves the contrary.
[QUOTE=''ZIMdoom''][QUOTE=''the_dark-knight'']I know it has 256mb of ram and 256mb of ram dedicated the the video card. My questions is 1. How does this limit the PS3? If you have 256mb of ram...why cant devs just dip into the video memory? Is that video memory just going to waste? Also...how is it limiting the PS3 2. how is this beneicial at all for the PS3? Why would sony dedicate the 256mb oof ram for the PS3 video? Iknow that the video memory is XDR...making it waaaaaay faster than just ddr or something.[/QUOTE]It is limiting because too many developers refuse to learn new hardware, and instead, just want to make every game as if it is for PC. With PCs, developers have massive amounts of RAM they essentially use as a crutch. They don't have to worry about efficiency or what type of hardware the user actually has, because that isn't their problem. They just dump as much infor into RAM as they can.When it comes to consoles, the RAM is much less for a number of reasons. However, the PS3 is designed to be a streaming machine and not a ram-dump. So, for developers to make games properly for the system, they have to take it apart, spread the data across the spu's (or whatever they are called) and the recompile the data at the end. It should all be done streaming. When developers use the hardware properly, you get games like Uncharted. However, most devs can't be bothered (maybe budget, maybe time, etc) and so they just try and squeeze their RAM-dump game onto the PS3 with minimal optimization. [/QUOTE]Could you imagine how sexy GTAIV could have looked if it were PS3 exclusive? If they utilized everything about ps3? You guys think it would look similar to what it is now? AAnd shouldn't euphoria be better on PS3 since it is a physics heeavy system...which the cell excells in.
I've posted this at least a hundred times.http://research.scea.com/ps3_deferred_shading.pdfGuess what it's about?The pixel shader runs on the Synergistic Processing Elements
(SPEs) of the Cell/B.E. and works concurrently with the GPU to
render images. The system's unified memory architecture allows
the Cell/B.E. and GPU to exchange data through shared textures.
The SPEs use the Cell/B.E. DMA list capability to gather
irregular fine-grained fragments of texture data generated by the
GPU. They return resultant shadow textures the same way. The
shading computation ran at up to 85 Hz at HDTV 720p
resolution on 5 SPEs and generated 30.72 gigaops of
performance. This is comparable to the performance of the
algorithm running on a state of the art high end GPU. These
results indicate that the Cell/B.E. can effectively enhance the
throughput of a GPU in this hybrid system by alleviating the
pixel shading bottleneck. I.E. textures can be shared through shared memory in the Playstation 3 to use integrated, concurrent rendering. This is something the XBox 360 can absolutely NOT do. The Xbox 360 has ''shared'' memory, not ''unified'' memory. You have 512 megs, and then the developer partitions. Unless anybody can give some kind of developer commentary proving that statement false rather than true.The Xbox 360 ends up with partitioned memory....the PS3's memory is naturally partitioned, but the partitions can be overridden, thus removing any fanboy-imposed performance roadblock.By the way, this is straight from Sony, and they've actually done this already. Meaning the memory is unified, period. Thank you.
Good question. I guess it all depends on how the developers use the hardware. For instance, there is an IBM tech demo using a cell processor (similar to the PS3 spu) that can perform realtime raytracing (with additional elements,GI, ambient, specular...etc) without the GPU. So maybe some limitations in GPU memory can be overcome by utalizing the SPUs for certain tasks.
[QUOTE=''BobHipJames'']I've posted this at least a hundred times.http://research.scea.com/ps3_deferred_shading.pdfGuess what it's about?The pixel shader runs on the Synergistic Processing Elements
(SPEs) of the Cell/B.E. and works concurrently with the GPU to
render images. The system's unified memory architecture allows
the Cell/B.E. and GPU to exchange data through shared textures.
The SPEs use the Cell/B.E. DMA list capability to gather
irregular fine-grained fragments of texture data generated by the
GPU. They return resultant shadow textures the same way. The
shading computation ran at up to 85 Hz at HDTV 720p
resolution on 5 SPEs and generated 30.72 gigaops of
performance. This is comparable to the performance of the
algorithm running on a state of the art high end GPU. These
results indicate that the Cell/B.E. can effectively enhance the
throughput of a GPU in this hybrid system by alleviating the
pixel shading bottleneck. I.E. textures can be shared through shared memory in the Playstation 3 to use integrated, concurrent rendering. This is something the XBox 360 can absolutely NOT do. The Xbox 360 has ''shared'' memory, not ''unified'' memory. You have 512 megs, and then the developer partitions. Unless anybody can give some kind of developer commentary proving that statement false rather than true.The Xbox 360 ends up with partitioned memory....the PS3's memory is naturally partitioned, but the partitions can be overridden, thus removing any fanboy-imposed performance roadblock.By the way, this is straight from Sony, and they've actually done this already. Meaning the memory is unified, period. Thank you.[/QUOTE]Nice find James.
[QUOTE=''Phazevariance'']Yes mainly from cell. Programming for a regular CPU is a normal process, with the use of sub processors that take the load off the man CPU. With Cell, it is made up of LOTS of sub processors all of which are independantly programable, and that causes for super complex code and program layouts for full function of the cell processor. Where as regualr CPU's jsut have multithreading, its taken to a new level with the Cell and some developers jsut don't care to spend the huge amount of extra time and money to learn it jsut for one console. It's too bad they havent tried to invade the PC market more with cell, because they COULD make it a standard if they tried hard enough. obviously bluray was their main focus.[/QUOTE]
Multi threading on the Cell is essentially the same as multi threading on any other (multi execution unit) processor it is just a question of degree. The PS3 has nine threads of execution while developers are still wrapping their heads around trying to use 2 - 4 threads. IBM's Octopiler helps* but it takes time for tools and experience to mature.
*if developers want to get the absolute most out of the Cell they would still need build their engines from the ground up specifically for the Cell.
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